Uncommon Freedom

Uncommon Man 1: The Origin of Lifestyle Design with Dr. Jared Roth

• Kevin Tinter • Episode 100

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What if you could design your life with the same intentionality architects use to design buildings? That's the powerful premise behind Jared Roth's approach to "life architecture," which he shares in this milestone 100th episode of the Uncommon Freedom Show.

Jared brings wisdom from his remarkable three-track career as a vocational minister, university professor, and business coach. Having started a church at 23, directed an MBA program, and helped grow businesses (including one that sold for $44 million), he offers a unique perspective on living with purpose across multiple domains.

The conversation explores how we've evolved from basic time management to role management and finally to comprehensive life architecture. Jared shares his framework for identifying your major life roles, prioritizing what matters most, and creating a blueprint that encompasses all dimensions of a flourishing life. 

"You may see me hurry, but you will never see me harried," Jared explains, revealing how he maintains harmony across professional achievements and personal responsibilities. He provides practical strategies for making your life plan adaptable through regular refreshes, monthly audits, and intentional flexibility. Far from being rigid, true life architecture creates space for both structure and spontaneity.

Perhaps most profound is Jared's guidance on mentorship and coaching. His greatest regret? Not accessing the wisdom around him more frequently throughout his journey. He explains what great mentors look for (alignment and diligence) and why coaching relationships accelerate personal transformation better than isolated self-improvement efforts.

This episode serves as a powerful reminder that a meaningful life doesn't happen by accident. As Jared quotes, "If you don't design your own life plan, chances are you'll fall into someone else's plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much." Ready to become the architect of your own extraordinary life?

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Kevin Tinter:

All right, friends, welcome to a very special episode of the Uncommon Freedom Show. As I mentioned on my last episode, Beck and I had to take a break. We pushed a very intentional pause back in November. We had a tremendous amount of life going on, and we just had to look at everything that we had committed to, and we had to prioritize. And something that I learned from Jared, who is my very special guest today, is what do we have the capability to do versus what do we have the capacity to do. And we looked at our podcast. We loved it. And we said, you know what? We just do not have the capacity. So we pushed pause. It's been about seven, eight months. And I've been chomping at the bit to get back to this. But honestly, Becca and I together still do not have the capacity to do a podcast. So I am taking on a passion project. It was actually one of my goals for 2025 was to launch this concept of the uncommon man, piggybacking on the concept of uncommon freedom. And I realized in this season, I'm ready to get back into podcasting, but Becca and I don't have the capacity to do it together. So I figured what a perfect opportunity to start doing some interviews with some of the incredibly influential people that I've been blessed to have as a part of my life. So I was just doing some quick, quick research on chat GPT. Apparently a very small percentage of podcasts make it past the third episode and only five to 10% make it to a hundred. So Jared, as I was prepping, I'm like, okay, this is the century mark. This is a very specialized episode, I was like, there is only one person that really deserves to be on this podcast with me, especially as we talk about Uncommon Man, and that is you. So, Jared Roth, welcome to the show, and thanks for being my first Uncommon Man guest.

Jared Roth:

Hey, my privilege, Kevin. It's really an honor to be with you, and you know, so much of what I have to talk about today, I think of you as probably being a great exemplar of, so we're a good team today.

Kevin Tinter:

Awesome. Well, that's an honor. So for those who don't necessarily know, you've been very influential in my life. You're talked about in my book. And honestly, a lot of the things that Beck and I talk about, especially when it comes to intentional living, the concept of lifestyle design, these are really things that I initially learned from you. So I... When I was thinking about Jared Roth, one of the first words that comes to mind is intentional and everything that you and your wife and did when you were leading the church and just in your business life and in your family life and your personal life, you were very intentional about it in a very very healthy way and really taught me that I heard John Maxwell say probably about eight years ago I remember where I was when I heard him say this and but it's something that you demonstrated he really taught me is most people accept the life they were given and very few choose to lead the life you want. And what I'm excited about today is for people to hear from one of the people that I think is one of the masters of lifestyle design, being very intentional about life. But I just want to share a quick little example of how you demonstrated intentionality. Might not even be something that you even remember, but as the lead co-pastors of Evergreen Church in Hillsboro, where we met you about 14 years ago, you and Ann were very intentional to park in the back 40 of the parking lot. And your reason was, is that was a servant leader way of leading your church. I think it's Simon Sinek who wrote the book, Leaders Eat Last. And it's a Marine Corps thing as well. It was one of the things I learned in the Marine Corps is that officers eat after their troops. And that was just a very simple example. But growing up in the Midwest, which is the Bible Belt, which is honestly a very... uh, positional leadership way of doing life where most churches had pastors parking. And it was right. You know, it was the, it was the premier parking spot to have, to, to watch you and, and be intentional about we're going to park far away so that everyone else can park close, just spoke volumes to me. So I just want to, uh, to share that example with you. So, uh, friends about, it was about 13 years ago that I was involved in the business of Beckett started, and we had been going to Evergreen for about a year and we had become friends and you started, was it called men at work or, um, Was that, that was the name of the group, right? Okay. I've been a part of a couple of groups that had similar name titles, but it was men at work and it was, man, it was a small group, three or four of us. And you invited me to be a part of this group and you played a huge role in helping me navigate the transition from being a police officer, uh, after, you know, basically 11, 12 years of being a public servant where I had a quote unquote steady paycheck, you know, government benefits, health insurance and things like that. and moving into this world of being self-employed business owner. And one of the other unique things about you, Jared, that was I feel like God used it as a huge blessing in my life was the fact that you were bivocational. Once again, not only were you the first pastor that I met that intentionally parked far away from the front door, but you were the first pastor that I met that was also an entrepreneur and that was also a business owner and a business coach. And I'm so grateful because you used your expertise to really pour into my life. So I just want to First of all, say thank you again for the huge influence you've had in my life. So before we get into that, I just love real quick. Give us a little, you know, that Reader's Digest version of Jared Roth, your life, your family, your education and your career.

Jared Roth:

Awesome. Well, thanks so much. Hey, I have been very fortunate and Kevin, you've alluded to it. I've been able to live a three track professional life and those three tracks have overlapped. Sometimes I've done all three. sometimes just one, but I have stayed current across my professional life in all three, vocational minister, university professor, and business coach. So Ann and I started a church when we were 23 years of age. Over the course of the next few years, we helped several hundred churches start in the United States. And for a season, I was the international vice president and then interim president of a denomination with over 60,000 churches. in 125 countries. So that's the ministerial side of my life. After earning a doctorate in organization change from Pepperdine, I directed the MBA program at George Fox University, and I taught courses in business leadership, business strategy, and executive leadership. And as a business coach, I got to work with entrepreneurial business leaders, and everybody has their favorite story to tell, so I'll tell mine. One of those businesses, when I started working with them, was valued at $500,000, and seven years later, a portion of the business sold to an investor for $44 million. Wow. They didn't all have that experience, but that's a fun one to have in the portfolio. Yeah. My research interests as an academic are about emotional intelligence and the influence of emotional intelligence, specific factors in effective leadership in different professions and occupations. We're a four-generation family. We are age 11 through 95, and we play together a lot. My wife, Ann, and I just completed our 50th National Park in the last two years in our Sprinter Adventure Van. And we head out internationally to hike for at least one month a year as well. I want to say, however, Kevin, and you know this about me, one of my mottos is... You may see me hurry, but you will never see me harried. And I've had the privilege of living a wonderful, rich, diverse, at times complex life. At times I've needed to hurry a bit, but I can say that one of the benefits I've enjoyed from being a life architect is that I do not find myself harried.

Kevin Tinter:

No, that's so good. And I think when you look at where we're at as a modern society, I think harried is probably a description, an adjective that a lot of people might not even know what it means. But if you do know what it means, it really describes where a lot of us are at, you know, where, how you doing? Probably the most common response is busy. And it's Sometimes it's a badge of honor, but honestly, I think if you really dug into it, most people would say busy and harried would be how they follow up with that. So, Jared, thank you so much for that. So what initially motivated you to become a life architect?

Jared Roth:

Well, as a young person and leader, I wanted to be effective, and part of that's my faith base. I'm a follower of Christ, and being a steward of my gifts and callings and being effective in life and productive is an important core value for me. I accessed what was available at the time. Remember, Kevin, you know that I'm old. So I've had a historic span here. But at the time, time management was a very important topic. And Peter Drucker, father of modern management, really helped introduce that idea. And I was a student of time management, really benefited from that. And then I began to realize that time management had nothing to do with priorities. So you could do a lot that wasn't very important. Really, the next season then was role management. And the book Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, which is still a classic, though it's been around for decades, really was an introduction to role management. Define your life by your major roles and then build your life around those roles. That proved to be life-changing for me because now I'm really leaning into the things that are important for me to be a steward of. And then more recently and wonderfully, what I call life architecture. And I think I stumbled across that first of all, Jack, Welsh who was a famous CEO of GE. His first statement of philosophy was, plan your own future or someone else will.

Kevin Tinter:

Yes.

Jared Roth:

And he was talking about the corporation. Jim Rome then expanded on that idea just a little bit and applied it to life and I quote, if you don't design your own life plan, chances are you'll fall into someone else's life plan and guess what? They have planned for you. Not much.

Kevin Tinter:

Isn't that true?

Jared Roth:

Isn't it? It really is true. And so, this idea of responding to life as it comes my way is not really noble in my opinion because what it says is I will let everyone and anything else determine for me what I should do next. Mm-hmm. So the idea of life architecture, and I love that. And as a business coach, I work with business owners and talk about architecting their business. And life architecture is just an extension of that. Let's move it from just beyond the business context with excellent business planning. And let's also plan the other areas of our life with equal intentionality. And then let's put all this together in a beautiful architectural life plan that says, If I build this out, I will live the life that I want to live.

Kevin Tinter:

That's so good. I love that analogy. And it's actually one that I use frequently to talk about building a house because it's something that we've actually done twice, two very different scales of homes. But if you've ever built a house, what you realize is you have a blueprint and you spend a lot of time preparing and planning and talking to people. There's a lot of work that goes into building the blueprint before you even break ground. And then, you know, if you have a typical experience at some point, you're going to say, you know what, we want to change this. And it allows you to make a change. And then you might even have to redo the blueprints. Sometimes there's just an addendum or something like that. But if you try to build a house without any blueprint whatsoever, you're going to end up with a complete mess. And I think that what I learned from you is that most people are going through life and they're trying to build something, but they have no blueprint for it. And therefore... things are happening to them instead of their instead of you know they're reacting instead of responding because one of the things that beck and i have learned is that it doesn't matter what your plan is for 2024 2025 or 2026 or your 5 10 15 20 year plan things are going to happen and what you we're hoping for is going to end up being different, most likely. However, having that plan in place allows you to pivot strategically and with intention so that you're still maybe even further along down the road than you anticipated, and maybe not, but at least you're still headed in towards the direction of what you want instead of just ending up with a ramshackle type of shed.

Jared Roth:

I think that is so wise. And yes, I think it's critical in planning to keep two values in mind. And you mentioned one, which is flexibility. Life happens, and so it requires flexibility. And the other one for me, and this is not everyone's value, but I wanted to have a life plan that built in times for me to be able to respond to people spontaneously. So it lacks rigidity. So it's not only changeable flexibility, but it doesn't feel rigid to others.

Kevin Tinter:

Could you give an example of that, Jared?

Jared Roth:

So, while pastoring, and as you mentioned, I was doing these two other professional roles as well, simultaneously. I wanted the church to always feel like they had all of my attention. They did not. And they knew that, but I wanted the feeling to be there. So I would build into my weekly plan several pockets of time that was reserved for being responsive to people in the congregation that wanted to meet with me. So they knew that I had a lot of things going. And so people would kind of sometimes apologetically say, hey, I'd love to have coffee with you sometime. I know you're very busy, blah, blah. And I would say, how about next Tuesday at nine? Or would next Wednesday evening at six be better? They were stunned with my availability, with my apparent spontaneity, but I could only be available and spontaneous because I had planned for that.

Kevin Tinter:

Oh, that's so good. That's so good. And I remember many times saying, hey, are you available to get together? And I would say, you know, I... probably knew more about how many different things you had going on than most of the church members. I would suspect that a lot, unless you actually mentioned it from stage, probably had no idea that you were bivocational, which is to your credit because there's other people who they're in a career, whether it's pastoring or something else, and they might have something else. And you're like, Are they really committed to this? And that was definitely, you said a great example of being able to do multiple things, but making yourself available to each of those different aspects of your life so that people didn't feel like they were getting cheated. So that's awesome. So using the architect image, Jared, what is your foundation for the life that you're building?

Jared Roth:

Well, as a person of faith, I go there first and foremost. And we all experience our faith in different ways, and we interpret the priorities of that differently. So the foundation that I would recommend for everyone is the foundation of their faith. While I'm recognizing that we're going to lay foundations that look different because we are different people with different callings, with different gifts and different interests. And so I recognize that there's some diversity there. You mentioned you and Becca building a couple of homes and it brought to mind, I grew up in a farmhouse that did not have a foundation. Furthermore, it didn't have a blueprint. In fact, my parents bought this farm with this house on it and the house was supposed to be a large garage. And because the garage had a peaked roof, they put an attic upstairs. And then as children came into the family, they started adding lean-to additions. So I grew up into a house that was one big box with an attic and lean-to additions. Later in life, Ann and I bought the farm from my parents so they could move on in a retirement home. And when I had the place appraised, the house was appraised as a negative value. And I said to the appraiser, I think you made a mistake here. And she said, oh, no, I made no mistake. That house has to be removed. Wow. So I grew up in a house without a foundation that had lean twos that functioned well enough for our family to grow up in. But its value was worth less than nothing because it didn't have a foundation and it wasn't designed with a plan.

Kevin Tinter:

What a metaphor. Yeah.

Jared Roth:

So, I want a life with a foundation. For mine, my faith is my foundation. And the priorities that come out of that are the points of focus that are most important for me to assure, get built into the blueprint.

Kevin Tinter:

Oh, that's so good. So, once the foundation is clear, what kind of rooms are needed to advance this purposeful life?

Jared Roth:

Yeah, you know, I just had reinforced for me the importance of being thoughtful about building the whole house, especially from working with business owners, uh, many times who are so focused on the business that the rest of their life is neglected and is after. And so this idea of, um, Our professional life during most of our life is going to require most of our time, energy, and attention. We understand that. But if the other rooms of that life aren't attended to equally well in the planning, even though they may not get equal time and energy, then they are going to atrophy for neglect and our life is going to end up being something that is lopsided. Part of it is going to be potentially overdeveloped and other parts of it underdeveloped. So I go back then to that second generation of what I call time management, which is role identification. And I, for many years, chose to identify my major roles and then to say, in this role, how am I going to build it out in a way that really makes that robust and prepares that area of my contribution for the future as well. The professional side of my life will get undue attention, energy, and time, but the others must be given the attention and time for them to be nurtured so that the whole of my life is has balance to it. Balance is a word I actually don't prefer to use, but I use it because it's common. But Kevin, you may recall, I prefer to use the word harmony. A musical piece that's written with harmonies, the harmonies don't dominate the major melody. but they support it and make it the piece of beauty that it is. I think other roles in our life are at times harmonies and they're critical and unless they're called out and develop their atrophy and we end up being less purposeful, less whole and less healthy and as a result contributing in a more two-dimensional way to others in life.

Kevin Tinter:

That's so good. So good. So how do you try to prioritize your goals and plans with so many competing factors, Jared?

Jared Roth:

Yeah. Well, when I first did the work of identifying my major roles in life, the promise was that probably most people are going to be able to identify someplace between 25 and 75 roles.

Kevin Tinter:

Wow.

Jared Roth:

And then the discipline is to find roles that were stated more specifically than they needed to be so that you can roll some up into one role. For example, I have a role of being a father of a daughter and the father of a son. I can roll those up and say that I am a father. So there's consolidation. But the most difficult work of role identification, if as what is suggested is I'm going to end up with seven major roles, roles, I'm going to have to eliminate the majority of the roles that I've identified that I have in life to get down to seven. That is painful, painful work. And I'm going to make a confession. I'm not proud about this. I'm just going to describe how painful this is. I believe that because Jesus said our major command in life is to love God and to love our neighbor as ourself, that neighbors must be pretty important. I have never in my good life had neighbor as one of my top seven roles.

Kevin Tinter:

Wow, that's a good point.

Jared Roth:

I'm conflicted about that. I not only think it's important, I know it's important. But it's that level of painful paring down to say, at the end of the day, which are the seven roles that I will live and die for and I will pour the majority of my attention into and purposefully plan for and nurture, knowing that some other roles in my life are going to be spontaneously addressed and I'll be thrilled when they do, but they are not going to be intentionally built in the architecture of my life.

Kevin Tinter:

So good. So good. So we can't perfectly predict the future and or can we barely predict the future. So how do you make your life plan adaptable and fresh?

Jared Roth:

Yeah. So I, when I get something that works well, I really like to keep it. So one of the things that I've made myself do is to dump my good life template every five years.

Kevin Tinter:

Okay.

Jared Roth:

And replace it with something that I actually think and feel will be better once I discover it. So the discipline is not just to require that I change how I structure, but is also to require myself that I do the work and the due diligence and the research to come up with something that is fresh, new, and better. Okay. And so I require of myself innovation and change to a plan that has worked wonderfully well for me. And I came up on five years at the end of 2024. So I knew that I had given myself an assignment to come up with a fresh way of organizing my life for 2025. And I'm happy to report to you that while many elements of the plan are similar, that because of research that I did about most recent discoveries on well-being and purpose, particularly later in life, now that I am 70 and retired, that I think and frame my life in different ways. So first of all, I require myself innovation and change in how I create my blueprint. Mm-hmm. The second thing that I do that's been very, very helpful is that I require myself that I have new goals every year. So even if the template remains the same and roles remain the same and the values under those roles remain the same, the activities that I'm going to do in pursuing those roles will change. And if the goals are different than probably the plans to meet those goals, are different. I don't throw out everything. That's not the point. The point is I require myself that there be a freshness every year about that. So I have a five year change. I have a one year freshening. And then every month I take a couple of hours on a Saturday morning and it's scheduled in the calendar. And I do an audit on how I did the previous month. And there are, for example, people, that I have listed. I have three categories of relationships. I have new, now, and old. And I have lists of people, short lists, under each of those each year. New relationships, the word is initiate. Initiate the new, nurture the now, and sustain the old. So when I go through my list at the end of the month, I just check off which of those people I did engage with that previous month. And if I didn't, I make an appointment in the following month so that I will intentionalize what didn't happen spontaneously the month before. As we move forward as well across the course of the year, especially as you move through a quarter or second quarter, you know, life has happened. And I actually have learned to celebrate and enjoy going in and making changes because it indicates that life is dynamic. The people that I do life with are dynamic. And this is a tool. It is not armor that I wear. The tool serves life and it gives direction and it's an earth star. It is simply a tool that is flexible and malleable and changeable. And in fact, it wouldn't be a useful tool unless it did change.

Kevin Tinter:

It reminds me of the scripture about the Sabbath, right? Man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath for man. And it's easy for a lot of us, I think, to put some of these structures in place and they become... we lose focus and it's kind of like the structure was made for me, not me for the structure. And, um, and so that's probably the other end of the spectrum for people who don't put any intentionality into their life to those who put so much, but they're not willing to adjust. So good.

Jared Roth:

Yeah. I, Kevin, uh, uh, you happen to know, um, my wife and we've been married 47 years. We met in the eighth grade. We know each other pretty well. Yeah. She doesn't organize life the way I organize it. She doesn't have a good life template. And she is equally intentional about life as I. And we merge life in a way that makes it work, in terms of schedule, rarely without conflict. By the way, we've worked our way there in 47 years. But having said that, I'm also... daily reminded that this is an extension of my personality, temperament, and preferences, and that other people are equally intentional and organize that and communicate that and audit that in very different ways. The key is not the tool. The key is not the strategy. The key is intentionality.

Kevin Tinter:

Yes, that's so good because Beck and I are very similar. I love spreadsheets. I literally right here, This is my life on a page. I probably should have that made into an app or something like that instead of still carrying around a clipboard and a piece of paper that I print out on the first of every month, but it works for me. Becca doesn't care for it. She thinks it's horribly anal retentive, but she's also very intentional. So I think that's a great lesson is that there's not a right or a wrong way to do this. The key is how are you being intentional and then putting it into a framework that works for your personality and your preferences. That's so good.

Jared Roth:

I do think the language of construction is very helpful. And because it's common to most of us, I find it helpful regardless of the methodology. But to think in terms of architecting one's life, thinking through what's this house to be used for, thinking through what rooms are going to be critical, thinking through how am I going to support each of those rooms, and then doing that time, energy audit, and sometimes finances as well. Time, energy, and money. And now I have all these grand plans, but I have these three areas of limitation. How... Am I going to find synergy between these and how am I going to eliminate some of my goals for this year that may have to go later because I don't have the capacity?

Kevin Tinter:

That's so good. So good. All right. So, just a couple of extra questions for you as we wind things down here. What advice do you have for all of us regarding associations and seeking out mentorship?

Jared Roth:

I have very few regrets, Kevin. I'm fortunate in life and I'm also not wired to live in the past. So I'm blessed with selective amnesia. Having said that, my major regret, and it is so far in first place that I don't even know what's in second place, is that as an independently wired human, that I did not access wisdom all around me more frequently and more broadly. I simply didn't access it. I'm a reader, and so as a voracious reader, I gained tremendous information by reading. But God blessed me with humans around me and formal and informal learning opportunities that had I accessed would have dramatically accelerated my purposefulness success and productivity in life. I wish that I, when I was especially given new opportunities or faced new challenges, that my first thought would have been, who is it in my life that I could reach out to to get a perspective on this? As a business coach, I am a huge, huge fan in the coaching model. For a period of my life, I worked as a consultant. I liked the work that I did, but we ended up at the end of a consultation with excellent problem identification, solution identification, and plans to implement, and those were essentially never implemented. The coaching relationship, which is ongoing and provides support and accountability and human touch, is critical. I now have coaches in my life. I wish years ago that I would have engaged people speaking into my life in a coaching context. I think it is the most powerful, transformational, human context that we have access to. And now we have such science and understanding about the psychology and the sociology of coaching as well. When I read the scripture, I see that it's Jesus model, and I don't know why I didn't read coaching when I read through the New Testament from start to end. That is, in my opinion, the road to accelerated success and personal transformation.

Kevin Tinter:

That's so good. My last question for you is, and I realize you're in a new season of life than when we met 14 years ago, but what do you look for or what do you think great mentors like yourself are looking for when they're considering investing in someone by mentoring them?

Jared Roth:

For me, I want to be a match in terms of what I have to contribute. And so this is a humble approach to say, I want to help you. I hope that I can help you, but I may not be the most helpful for you. And much of my interviewing of a candidate for mentoring is around whether or not I'm a fit for them. I don't think that they would be reaching out if they weren't sincere. So I'm wanting to serve them the best with the best referral. And many times I find myself making referrals because while I have the skills to lead through a coaching process or a mentoring process, others may be better suited for them. The second thing that I look for is I'm going to use the word diligence. What I mean is You give yourself an assignment one week and you do it. I won't work with people that don't do the work. And as a business coach, I remember the first client that I fired because he wouldn't do the homework. He could afford what I thought was a substantial monthly fee and he didn't mind paying it because he enjoyed our friendship. But I fired him because he wouldn't do the work. And what I said to him is, It's a disservice to you for us to call what has become a friendship, a coaching relationship. It's a disservice to your business and your employees that you're not making progress. And it is a disservice to me because I find fulfillment and satisfaction from being a gift in someone's life that is making a transformational difference. So I need to be the right fit for you and you need to do the work to change.

Kevin Tinter:

Oh, that's so good. That's so good. Well, Jared, there's a saying that says, and I don't remember who's credited with this, but you can count the seeds in an apple, but you can't count the apples in a seed. And I would just say that your influence on my life and on Becca's life getting choked up is like that. We've been blessed to have an impact in the lives of a lot of people. And I don't say that to brag. But when I look back where we were, 14 years ago in just a couple months, our life was very different. We were on a different trajectory, had different priorities. We were much more, you know, just going through life. We didn't have that blueprint. And you, you know, the Lord used, you know, us moving to the church you were pastoring and just, you know, you identifying something in us that made you willing to invest in us. But I, you know, I think one of the things that I look most forward to in heaven is I believe that we'll get a glimpse of all the impact that we've had, that we don't even know that we've had. And I know that when you're there, there's going to be people that Beck and I had impact, but they're part of the ripple effect that you had in our lives. So thank you so much for your time today. I value it immensely. I have tremendous respect and love for you. You've been just a huge influence in my life, you and Anne both. And I'm so grateful for you. I could, gosh, I could talk to you about this kind of stuff every month. We could just do an Uncommon Man, Jared Roth series and probably go on for a couple of years. But I'm so grateful for you. And it's so great to catch up. And I hope that our listeners have caught just a fraction of what I have from you over the years. And thank you so much.

Jared Roth:

You're welcome. My pleasure.

Kevin Tinter:

All right. Thank you, friends. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Stay tuned. I can't promise that they're all going to be as good as this one, but they will be close. So have a wonderful day.